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Weapon models Question


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#1 Maxx

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Posted 04 November 2003 - 08:30 PM

ok guys, I've absolutely had it!
i see modelers all the time now making their weapon models detailed to a T.
i see them making full detail on the front side of the gun, the right side of the gun, hollow barrels and complete front sides of scopes and such.

my question is:
WHY

if you really are a modeler, and know anything about modeling, you know that HL and HL2, just like every other FPS, use the TRI MODEL SYSTEM

the gun you hold in first person is NOT the same one you see someone else holding!
the TMS is basically the idea that the player holds a highly detailed model in first person, and the one they pick up off the floor or see someone else holding (the 2 other models) are completely seperate models!
HL modelers know this as the VWP system: View, World and Person (i think)
so the player sees themself holding a 2000 poly rifle, but they see another player holding a 300 poly model that REPRESENTS the same gun.
THEY ARE NOT THE SAME MODEL
no need to add pointless detail the player will never see.
its called backface-deleting, my fellow modelers.
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#2 Emon

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Posted 04 November 2003 - 09:05 PM

...Because there's no point in showcasing the low detail ones? And if you're a smart modeler, you'd never make the same model three times.
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#3 Maxx

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Posted 04 November 2003 - 10:08 PM

i know what you mean, Emon.
but the thing is that all the other modelers i have talked to makin models for HL2 dont even know about the TMS.
i say "why are you making the barrel hollow and all the front details? its not like the player will see it"
they reply "yeah, but the other players will"
they dont understand the concept of it, thats what im trying to say. im trying to help them before they fux0r them selves
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#4 s_e00

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Posted 04 November 2003 - 11:00 PM

Dude
omg, before going off and flaming modelers, you should make some research talk to some of them and try to understand the reasons instead of just talking shit on them. You are right on some points, but still try to understand.

K here i explain.

Your right, there are three model types, althought some FPS's only make two detail levels. Your right, the one ur holding is lots more poly then the world model or 3rd person. Now, every modelr making guns for a FPS will make another model with low poly, which is basicaly the same one as high, but uglier. So why would you make an detailed and nice version, show it off, then make an uglier low poly one, and show it off as well? (hope i didn't confuse you)

Modelers make them nice and detailed from everyside for show off, for publicity, What would you prefer looking at in HL2Central's news posts? A gun thats detailed only on one side and the top, and fucking ugly on rest of the parts? Or another mod that made a gun detailed top to bottom? ok point made. Also, There are some that think about left handed views and right handed views, a gun does NOT look the same on the left and right, (unlike counter strike). So making a model detailed on both sides gives you the ability to have a detailed and accurate representation of the gun for players that prefer the gun on the left side or the right. Thats my second argument.

Now its not over, have you ever even considered reload animations or unholster animations? The weapon, during that animation, could be seen from every angle, you never know. So what the modeler does, is make the model detailed on every account, and once the nimation is done, the modeler goes ahead and deletes the polys that will, NOW, trueley be never seen.

So ya, i hope i made my point.

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Edited by s_e00, 04 November 2003 - 11:06 PM.

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#5 Emon

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Posted 04 November 2003 - 11:27 PM

QUOTE (Maxx @ Nov 4 2003, 05:08 PM)
they reply "yeah, but the other players will"

That's what's stupid, a texture is more than enough.
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#6 s_e00

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Posted 05 November 2003 - 02:24 AM

QUOTE
they reply "yeah, but the other players will"


Those that reply that to you, don't know what their doing, literaly.
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#7 DvS

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Posted 05 November 2003 - 09:38 AM

QUOTE (Emon @ Nov 4 2003, 11:27 PM)
QUOTE (Maxx @ Nov 4 2003, 05:08 PM)
they reply "yeah, but the other players will"

That's what's stupid, a texture is more than enough.

Yeah, like that two polygon NS turret that just had an animation on each side... that's sufficient.
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#8 BurN

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Posted 05 November 2003 - 11:16 AM

I think most modelers just do it for the passion of modeling.
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#9 random.hero

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Posted 05 November 2003 - 05:29 PM

yes, i see your point, but if your making a model and its the whole thing, all sides. then it makes it easier to make a 3rd person model from that. rather than having to reduce polys off your high poly one and then make the other side. personally if i were doing that, id make one from all sides, then optimize bits after. also, you dont know what parts might be seen after anims are added.
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#10 Maxx

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Posted 05 November 2003 - 05:52 PM

i personally find it easier to make a new model for the W and P files from scratch.
thats just me though.
but its not that they make all the details for showing them off, my point is, which i think most of you got, is that alot of these modelers i talk to actually dont know about the VWP system. which makes them run in to trouble.
personally i would not like to play an FPS where all the people i see are holding 3000 poly guns along with their 4000 poly player models and the map environments and physics. can anyone say LAG?

EDIT: actually yeah, i did take in to account the animations and such, as well as the publicity. but the models im refering to are the ACTUAL models as well, the actual game model that they are making, the one that they share links with me in private chats in mIRC and such. so this isnt just a pointless flame cool.gif

Edited by Maxx, 05 November 2003 - 05:58 PM.

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